Zoe Quinn and Gamer Gate

[Sephiroth9611]

Anyone here following this?

[Sephiroth9611]

It seems moving this to SD was pointless as no one finds it serious enough to even post a reply.

[The Slider]

Sorry Seph, haven't heard about this one at all. Can you give us your thoughts? (while I catch up on reading about it

[Anguipes]

I've looked it up and as far as I can tell... eh. Just another tale of [alleged] manipulation, hurt feelings, petty revenge, stereotypes, identity issues and the associated navel-gazing that internet communities do so well. Corruption has always been rife in game journalism, nothing new here except sex. Which isn't new, sexual manipulation has been around forever too. Misogyny in the "gaming community"? Forever. People complaining about the same? Forever. It blowing up into entrenched debates about social issues that never achieves anything but making both sides look like idiots? Frequent.

So, yeah, some people have written bad things and/or are alleged to have done bad things. Sections of the internet explode in self-righteousness. Woo.

[Sephiroth9611]

This first came to my attention when one of the writers at a news aggregation site I follow posted about it in association with his ustream show where he and Adam Baldwin the actor had a panel discussion about it.

I thought I'd ask around here. That's all.

[R. Kasahara]

It seems moving this to SD was pointless as no one finds it serious enough to even post a reply.

Quit trolling. This entire forum has been dying for a long time and you know it as well as I do. I moved it to SD because the topic is a better fit for SD.

This first came to my attention when one of the writers at a news aggregation site I follow posted about it in association with his ustream show where he and Adam Baldwin the actor had a panel discussion about it.

I thought I'd ask around here. That's all.

It's about online harassment of prominent voices in gaming (particularly women and the men who support them), but various trolls and their sockpuppets are trying to spin the whole thing as a protest against gaming corruption, even though the specific "corruption" that kicked off this whole thing doesn't really exist.

Here's some good, thorough summaries at Ars Technica:
- The "death" of the "gamers" and the women who killed them
- Chat logs show how 4chan users created #GamerGate controversy

Additional reads:
- To fair-minded proponents of #GamerGate
- Why GamerGate Is Destined To Fail
- Hello: Videogames Are For Everybody

Oh, and it was recently revealed that the FBI offered the International Game Developers Association help with such harassment, back in July. This is how serious the (overall, ongoing) problem has become.

If you want any more, check out my tweets and retweets from these past few weeks. Needless to say, I'm on the "anti" side, and have lost at least one follower who seems to have thought I was shitting on all gamers. Me, I'm sick of all the bullshit from people who threaten the lives of other people simply because they share the same gender that I do and have opinions. Gaming has changed; it's grown bigger and more diverse. Video games are for everybody, and they are being made, played, and talked about by everybody (this was always the case, sure, but it's happening more now than ever), but there are some assholes out there who are lashing out against what they perceive as their toys being taken away from them by others who don't resemble them.

[Cyrus]

both sides look like idiots

This viewpoint really gets my goat and, sorry, makes anybody using it look like they side with the misogynist asshats but are afraid to actually come out and say as much.

On one side, we have people discussing feminism in gaming, via non confrontational videos or articles or what have you. Maybe some of these people performed sins such as sleeping around or daring to form friendships within the industry they're supposed to be journalists on.

On the other side, we have a coordinated campaign of death, rape, and mutilation threats across the spectrum of Internet communications (Twitter, article comments, emails, IRC, etc) as well as extending that abuse and harassment into the physical realm by spamming phone threats and publishing contact info, then promising to utilize said contact info to harm individuals and their family members.

Anybody who thinks that situation can be distilled into "well BOTH SIDES are bad!" is either a simpleton or, as I said, buys into some of the anti-women hate and is afraid to admit it.

[Anguipes]

both sides look like idiots

This viewpoint really gets my goat and, sorry, makes anybody using it look like they side with the misogynist asshats but are afraid to actually come out and say as much.

On one side, we have people discussing feminism in gaming, via non confrontational videos or articles or what have you. Maybe some of these people performed sins such as sleeping around or daring to form friendships within the industry they're supposed to be journalists on.

On the other side, we have a coordinated campaign of death, rape, and mutilation threats across the spectrum of Internet communications (Twitter, article comments, emails, IRC, etc) as well as extending that abuse and harassment into the physical realm by spamming phone threats and publishing contact info, then promising to utilize said contact info to harm individuals and their family members.

Anybody who thinks that situation can be distilled into "well BOTH SIDES are bad!" is either a simpleton or, as I said, buys into some of the anti-women hate and is afraid to admit it.

I've seen more now, and I'd agree with what you say. The misogynist asshats are far more in the wrong than anyone else, IMO, but that doesn't make all of the opposition perfect. The drama, arguments and general histrionics by some people on what I honestly think is the right side of the argument still makes them look silly. Look is the operative word here: one side presents good intentions but often poorly, making them look foolish, the other is made up of abusive idiots and apologists for the same, who can't help but look foolish because they are.

I'm also not assuming anything. Of course I'd like to think that all the accusations against Zoe Quinn are false. Scratch that, having read more, I do think they're false. But there is also the slim possibility that she was a deceitful, manipulative individual who exploited* people in an unpleasant way. This leaves me wide open to accusations of embedded misogyny myself, I'll admit. I don't believe that's true. I am willing to believe the worst of people regardless of gender.

*The possible deceit and manipulation is of far, far more interest to me than "had multiple partners". I have no problem with anyone having as many sexual partners as they desire. Playing with people's emotions for personal gain though is not all right in my opinion.

Me, I'm sick of all the bullshit from people who threaten the lives of other people simply because they share the same gender that I do and have opinions.

I think I've become so sick of it I've burnt out and become part of the problem My attitude's become "oh God not this again", not "people are still acting like this, something needs to be done!" First time I've been accused of siding with misogyny though, I need to think about that.

[Cloud Strife]

Can I just say, why is this being made into a big deal and since when was it an issue that women play video games? Is it really that serious that IE the average gamer should even feel this way or act in this childish nature that EVERYONE seems to be enjoying games?

[Ultimate Fantasy]

I have heard a fair bit about this to be honest while its been going on. But I just find the whole thing confusing. At one point it was about companies trying to stop people being nasty online and in games (which I think is fair). Then there was the whole Zoe Quinn thing but as I do not know much about that other than second hand comments. So I cant say anything on that and don't plan to. Then I think at one point a woman who did a video about women in gaming got pulled into it (cant remember her name but the video was called Women as Background decoration) resulting in her getting threats. That I do know a bit more about and I watched the video. In fairness I agreed with the vast majority of the video though she did just state some examples without explaining them.

So this lead me to conclude this whole thing is just a bunch of nasty people who like games being nasty and thus maintaining their own stereotype.

I on the other hand just kept playing games happily. As a lot of the stuff is just nasty crap spewed out to make more people get annoyed and miss the actual reasons behind this. Women aren't destroying games. Games are a creative thing not just something manufactured for the masses. They are created be teams of people who want to create something other people enjoy. You may as well compare them to films and books. There is no way to destroy creativity and if someone tries to break it people just get creative in a new way and we all get to enjoy something new as a result. The only way anyone would destroy gaming is if they went round the earth and put their fist through every console they could find. That is yet to happen so I am good haha.